Formula Drift Judging Breakdown – Matt Field vs. Pat Goodin

Posted on Jul 29, 2015 In Enjuku Racing Formula D Matt Field

MattField.PatGoodin

Field Leading Goodin: Field initiates high and stays high on OZ1. Goodin initiates at the same time and establishes good proximity right away, maintaining it throughout OZ1, slight bobble at the end of OZ1 and slightly less angle, but great proximity. Field is off the Touch & Go; Goodin with great proximity and mimic. Field Fills OZ2 but is off of IC2. Goodin misses OZ2 and drops 1 tire (rear tire remains on the line) before IC2. Field finishes strong, Goodin has lost some proximity, but gets back on line and finishes strong within a couple of car lengths.

PatGoodin.EnjukuRacing
Goodin leading Field: Goodin initiates high and stays high on OZ1. Field initiates at the same time and increases proximity throughout OZ1, but drops down a full lane well before the end of OZ1 with a couple of bobbles. Goodin hits the Touch & Go very well and fills OZ2, while Field is far offline and misses the Touch & Go, but fills OZ2 and regains the appropriate line behind Goodin. Goodin gets close to IC1, is slightly off of IC2, and finishes strong, as does Field from OZ2 to finish.

In the driver’s meeting I was very clear on OZ1 being an extremely important part of the track. So much so that I, as the line judge for qualifying, allotted 15 points to that area alone (I combined my 10 style points with the 5 points allotted from my 25 points for line overall). The fact that Field missed such a large portion of it by dropping down a whole lane while chasing Goodin, while also missing the Touch & Go, was a large enough mistake in my eyes to equal the 1 tire off that Goodin performed on the previous lap.
PatGoodin
This outcome of this battle was considered scandalous and offensive in some comments on social media, mainly due to the tire drop by Goodin I believe. We received a petition from Field’s team alerting us to an apparent 2-tire drop, which we quickly declined after reviewing the replay yet another time. The rules state that both tires must be clearly over the line, without a doubt, which simply was not the case in this situation.

They both had sloppy chase runs and there was no clear winner in our eyes. We voted for a One More Time, erasing all of their mistakes and allowing them to start over with a clean slate.

 

By Ryan Lanteigne

 

Field Lead Video on Instagram-
https://instagram.com/p/5lUbGMlZ5U/?taken-by=partsshopmax

Field Follow on Instagram-
https://instagram.com/p/5pa6JXlZ_-/?taken-by=partsshopmax

28 Comments

  1. Chris Beasley says:

    goodin stops drift, drives straight to the clip, then re-initiates. Maybe its not 2 tires off, but its def loss of drift/ straightening.

    fields chase may have not been great but alteast he drifted the whole course.

    Im happy to see goodin do well, hes a great guy, but im happier to see the better performing driver move on. field.

  2. Lawntang says:

    @Chris Beasley Goodin didn’t go straight. Had he driven straight he would have indeed had 2 tires off, but the front tire was off course, while the rear was on the line.

    This was a One More Time call, due to 2 poor chase runs, not an outright loss for Field. The way Field dropped down in OZ1 and missed the T&G entirely was something I could not overlook. It gave both of them an opportunity to clean up their runs and prove who could drive better.

  3. Doof says:

    I even said that Goodin only dropped one tire lol.

    I still feel like on the surface, Field ran better than Goodin between the two runs, but I was unaware of how much emphasis was placed on OZ1 since I wasn’t there in the driver’s meeting.

  4. HosfordHugger says:

    how wide is that yellow line? 2 feet?

    why are there so few ‘definitive’ angles in a series sponsored by a camera company?

  5. Twitch_6 says:

    I guess this is the subjective part of drifting, but I don’t at all see how you can view Goodin’s near off to Field’s lower line as equal mistakes. I get that you put a lot of emphasis on the bank and all, but after watching both of those Instagram clips, as well as rewatching the battle on the livestream, I have to disagree with the OMT call.

    If you watch each run as a complete run, and not nitpick at individual aspects, Field’s chase looks so much better than Goodin’s.

    Field made a mistake on the toughest part of the course. Goodin made a mistake on an easier part. Although he was off line, Field maintained drift throughout the run. Goodin went nearly straight and dragged the ebrake for a solid second to keep the rear wheels barely on course. It looked horrible!! Ugly is the only way to describe it. Field was offline through the last half of the most difficult sector. I just can’t see those as equal mistakes.

    Also, Field fought back from his mistake (yes, he had more time to do so). He got right back on Goodin’s door, and transitioned completely in sink with him before the final inside clip. Goodin’s mistake took him out of tandem range, and the final transition was completely out of sink.

    Maybe it’s just me, but if there’s more than 1-1.5 car lengths of seperation and the chase driver isn’t transitioning at the same time as the lead driver, I don’t really see that as tandem. That’s just two people drifting who happen to be near one another.

    I would love to see some in car footage of Goodin’s lead, because on the livestream, you can see Goodin’s car starting to wiggle around a bit just as Field dropped down the bank. I’m wondering if Goodin was pulling the hand brake or clutch kicking to stay high on the wall, but scrubbing speed. I’m willing to bet that Field dropped down the bank because he got out of the throttle for a split second because he thought he was going to hit Goodin.

    Not trying to fanboy for Field. I wasn’t even really interested in this call for some reason, until I went back and re watched it after seeing the Judge’s explination. Just giving my two cents on what I saw.

  6. jv244 says:

    Heres the problem I see with FD judging. There are so many tiny criteria to try and accommodate every single possible scenario, there are deductions for everything. Now FD fails HUGE in the area of fan/ spectator education and NOBODY is aware of these criteria unless you sit in on the drivers meeting. Therefore all the fans see a pair of runs that look majorly favorable to one driver and then the judges say that driver lost and everyone is pissed off. The judges literally sit there and scrutinize every single second of replay footage in slo-mo to try and find things the drivers did wrong. They need to STOP. They need to call it like they see it live. One shot. If they can’t decide off the live runs, OMT. Everyone sees the same thing. Eliminate all the bullshit tiny criteria and “emphasis” on certain parts of the course that the judges make up in their minds for no reason, because NOBODY else knows or cares about them.

  7. Doof says:

    It’s just the way FD is. Half of what they focus on doesn’t make sense.

    I love the Wang vs Whiddett battle at FDSEA cause it shows it perfectly. Forrest’s lead runs were on point and while Mike was close, he was extremely twitchy and sloppy and held next to no angle through the whole course to keep proximity. Meanwhile, he rockets off the start and runs his lead runs with not much angle but pulls enough of a gap to seem inactive chase and keep the battles going.

    While they were fun to watch, it’s apprent that FD and drivers have become so focused on power that the driving has gotten sloppy. The cars make smoke and carry high speed, but the driving is twitchy and not smooth or consistent at all, except for a few drivers.

    I get why this match was decided the way it was, but I agree with the above that I think Goodin’smistake was much larger than Field’s. If that’s the case, then there are other battles that should be brought into question regarding the line taken on the bank.

    Just shows further inconsistency within the judging. Too many rules and technicalities. It shouldn’t be that complicated.

  8. Scaifey86 says:

    @Doof, the drivers aren’t focused on power, they are focused on, as every professional drift team in the world would be, more grip. That’s why the cars are twitchy, and that’s why they need more power

  9. SleveO says:

    @Twitch

    I like that you shared you’re thoughts on the two runs; but you contradict yourself with by saying that Field’s run was better for the simple fact that it was cleaner by a general scope. Then you continue to describe all the points that you saw that proves your point in a bias tone for Field. You’re argument is weak and I suspect that you are only trying to support claims that continue to prove your theory. I would expect a reply towards the notes from one of the three judges that made the decision to have been more refined.

    #keyboardjudge
    #yourmomcleansdishesinthesink

  10. Curtis says:

    This just shows that they need camera angles…. period!

    So many questionable calls on if there’s a tire drop or not and yet they don’t have a single camera near any of the clips to see what really happened.

  11. Doof says:

    @Scaifey

    It’s the same shit. Teams want the ability to hold good angle around high speed corners. In order to do so, you need to be able to hold higher wheel speeds, thus more power. With more power, you need to be able to get it to the ground, thus you dial in more grip. It’s never ending.

    Look at videos from D1 Irwindale long ago and how they ran at Irwindale. Half the cars were running just as much angle on the bank as people in FD are now, and that was with an average of around 450hp. Cars had less power and less grip, so they were slower.. But the tandem was much closer.

    Why? Because it wasn’t a drag race to the first corner where cars are being stretched off the line.

  12. WingZeroCustom says:

    I agree. But at the same time most of the tandems in D1 at irwindale were horrible back then compared to now. I mean looking at the old footage the car gaps back then were so massive it was hard to keep them in shot. I mean its just an advancement of the sport. Overall I think the drifting has improved but its just things like this hold things back. Def need more camera on most of these tracks. So stuff like this won’t happen again.

  13. neverlift83 says:

    power wise, you have to keep up with competition. it was never about power but being competitive with the playing field.

  14. Tie Fighter says:

    @Doof
    I was in Seattle and watched the Whiddett/Wang battle and i cringed watching Mike follow (I’m a Mad Mike fan so wanted him to win). He had WAYYYY too much grip in the car and was really surprised how much grip he had dialed in when we all know that following Wang requires a slower follow run. I can see running that setup against JR because he has the ability to run away from people but yea that was super sketchy indeed.

  15. haubi says:

    Mad Mike’s runs were sketchy… at least his followruns… BUT he had really great proximity compared to Wang…
    Wangs followruns were great as well but had no proximity (btw I completely agree with the inactive chase decision)

    I’d much rather see good proximity and a few hickups than a follow run where there is no twindrifting happening at all

  16. FormulaDJudgesAreStupid says:

    I don’t see how goodin doesn’t get deducted for going TWO wheels of course.

    Formula D is retarded and the only reason goodin won is because of the honningan sticker.

  17. Doozer says:

    Just a little reminder so you guys have vocabularies that match your intelligence and understanding…

    Traction refers to the longitudinal (brake/acceleration) component of grip of a tire, and ‘grip’ commonly refers to the lateral force component of a tire. Forward vs. side bite.

    Increasing forward bite will get you more speed, but balancing it with side bite can be difficult. Most tuning changes affect both. And once you figure out how to increase both, you need more power.

    Cars like MM’s will be more sensitive to tuning changes due to the wheelbase (among other things), but their chassis tuning strategy paid off…and honestly Wangs car is slow- when it gets to final rounds it is usually lagging behind.

    Judging ‘inactive chase’ vs. ‘twitchy follow’ makes the horsepower wars happen. But GL figuring out how to level the playing field…

    Am I the only one feeling that FD could help their credibility by admitting they’re wrong once in awhile?

  18. Doof says:

    The day we live in when a 1,000hp S15 is considered “slow” lol.

    It’s definitely not as quick as a lot of the other cars on grid, but I still find it comical that anybody can refer to any 1000hp drift car as slow.

  19. Doof says:

    An a more hysterical note, gopros footage between TMQ and JTP:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&persist_app=1&v=MLBMUvPM3js

    Conveniently cut after contact with JTP and doesn’t show what took place after. That’s when you know you’re wrong.

  20. Doozer says:

    @Doof
    The end shows the 2nd half of the lead run. Not sure wtf is up with the editing…

    Damn MCQ was going off no matter what. Looks like he ran the same line as in NJ vs. Denofa.

  21. Twitch_6 says:

    @SleeveO, thanks for your opinion of my opinion.

    You’re correct that I did contradict myself, although that wasn’t my intention. I should have been more clear, and stated that, “if you look at the runs both ways, both as whole packages, and by nitpicking, in my opinion, I think field should have won that battle”. Sorry for confusing you.

    As far as the rest of your post, might be amongst the dumbest shit I’ve read here. Keyboard judge…really? Almost everyone here is a keyboard judge. We like drifting, we watch drifting, we share our opinions on it here. Problem is, instead of having constructive discussion, too many people like you spend time shooting other people’s opinions down instead adding to the discussion. Have I actually done anything to offend you that you need to resort to petty insults to try to invalidate my opinion?

    And maybe I’m too old to get it, but can anyone explain the kitchen sink hashtag is all about?

  22. NUTTERBUTTER says:

    just my 2 cents but honestly we need live stream of drivers meetings, simple and easy to do. also field should have one. there have been a mm runs with similar situations where they were deemed straight. so basically 2 degrees of variance between front and rear wheels is now considered drifting ? i don’t like it in fact it stinks of bs..

    now as far as wang and mm honestly no angle and fast is stupid. crazy angle tons of smoke and amazing engine noises is where its at, we love the sport for the cars the sounds and the style. the end. mm one was fast yes but shallow the whole run and sloppy follow runs, which is most of the judging based off of when it comes down to brass tax and which was there reasoning behind forest losing the battle.. so shouldnt there be a deduction for no style and ugly lead run ? just spit balling here since there are already to many rules and criteria’s in an subjective style sport for my taste to begin with.

    as for me i love to hate fd and i tell my wife every year after long beach ill never go to another event or build another car and not get paid for it. but i love it so much i come back for the punishment year after year. its passion and love but fuck it i hate it so much like an abused spouse that goes back because the sex is sooo good

  23. Samurai Sam says:

    we will never get video of the drivers meeting.

    FD already kicked media out of the drivers meeting because they don’t want the script to get out ahead of the ‘show’

  24. Mike Guy says:

    First driver to Periscope a drivers meeting will get Formula Derp brownie points for LIFE!!

    SOMEONE PLEASE DO IT!!! 🙂

  25. NUTTERBUTTER says:

    drivers meetings should be public information, honestly what are they trying to hide other than jarods bad jokes, ive sat threw them there is nothing special about them other than a clear example of what there looking for from the drivers.

    formula drift wants so badly to be like formula 1 in all aspects then why not make drivers meetings public information or post the minutes from meetings so we can all go over them and see what there trying to accomplish or the criteria they are requiring.

    somehow feel like they enjoy keeping fans in the dark to create these types of situations

  26. Picker Upper says:

    There’s no breaking this battle down lol, Goodin clearly lost this.

  27. AngleWins says:

    Again, like I have said, there is a variance between what fans really like and what the judges value. You judges don’t seem to care about angle, impact, or big entries much. You seem to favor boring, on-clipping-point runs (aka forseberg runs), while the fans prefer denofa, wang, and honadel runs with huge entries and lots of angle. I don’t think many fans can dispute this.

  28. NUTTERBUTTER says:

    angel you do win. and thats the point, drivers like driving like this as well. but again thats now how you win.

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