In the latest episode of the The Formula Drift Insider, founder Jim Liaw showed us a sneak peak at 2 possible track layout changes for the final round of Formula Drift. Both possible layouts allow for a longer track and wider last turn going into the finish. It has not be confirmed if either of these variations will be used at the final event Can this add more excitement, speed, or close tandem action to one of the best events on the circuit?
wow this actually looks promising. i love this idea.
I would love to see them use both inner banks.
if that is to scale, it looks like they’re riding the inner bank on the left side a lot longer than before. Also, that long transition from the left side back to the right side is just going to favor the big torque cars (aka V8s). I hope that doesn’t happen. If anything, I hope they make the track tighter rather than longer
I dig the idea and I hope that they do go through with the change for Irwindale just to add something “new” for the drivers drive through. I think layout 2 would be more favorable though, simply because of the final turn.
Theoretically speaking in layout 1, the increasing radius in the final turn could give lower power cars a disadvantage as they would either have to run a slightly shallower line than higher hp cars in effort to keep up, have to run a looser set up to keep a similar angle to the higher hp cars, or some other option.
With layout 2′s constant radius the higher hp cars can’t utilize their power *as easily* (*key words) when compared to the increasing radius; therefore, they can’t (again, in theory) simply “walk away” on power when leading the lower hp car in that final turn. This would give the lower hp car a chance to make up any gap from the higher hp car likely made on the bank, the transition in to the “infield” before the “inner wall” or the transition at center of the speedway (or some other spot), allowing the slower car a chance to charge in with additional momentum (due to the gap) which would help minimize the distance between the faster leading car and slower following car near the end of the run.
Again, this is in theory on shear power difference. Like as if two S15s set up the almost exactly the same except for one having 300WHP the other having 550WHP. There was NO consideration of driver skill or vehicle grip/setup in this theory.
No ones noticing the pattern here?
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz…
it’s all about riding the outer bank and then trying to come in with as much speed into the inner bank! why is there need for ANOTHER inner bank wall?? it’s just a distraction from the important parts of the course and it’s just a place for high HP cars to show off.
@Benson
ding ding ding ding ding. What Formula D should be doing is to make their make shift courses look like a real circuit like D1 does with Odaiba, not add another sweeper.
I’d rather run the regular layout. From past experience, I was lucky to get 2 laps out of a set of RT615k’s. With this new set up, you would have to change tires every lap…
There are too many V8′s and Left Hand turns for my liking. I’d rather watch D1 circa 2004.
It’s not going to give closer tandems unless both cars are equal in horsepower, I don’t think it’ll be anymore entertaining because it’s going to just be more long sweepers, which look great for photos, but really aren’t anything technical.
A better course would to use the same as last years but on the left sweeper after the transition to turn into a decreasing radius turn, to another transition to a equal radius right sweeper.
Looks like a reverse new jersey to me.
Id say leave long beach, atlanta, new jersey, evergreen, vegas and irwindale as is.
Dump miami cuz the track was 2 seconds long and uber lame.
Bring a dope chicago/road america or something into the series and more central and we need a texas venue bad.
8 events. 2 east 2 mid vegas and 3 westcoasters.
I think Florida is pretty cool…. I’m not a fan of long strenuous courses unless its like a Kart track.
@Blaze 1: in regards to the pattern–it’s like wall except reversed and bigger?
I think it’s just a way to cater to the higher HP cars and waste tires more frequently. As was said above, tires will definitely need to be changed every lap with a bigger layout. I like the idea of changing things p, but not this track. It’s been this way since the start of FD. Leave it be.
Also, I think if ur going to change things, change the season layout. Having so many teams from the west coast and so many privateers makes it a stretch to run rounds 3 & 4. The shortest break is between those two events and they are completely different tracks. Danny George has the right idea. 2 East: Jersey and Atlanta, 2 Central: [insert here], and 3 west with the shortest break in between Seattle & Vegas.
Just my $0.02
Of course I’ll be running a 4cyl miata so huge speed tracks isn’t ideal for myself so id like some more technical slower parts of any track.
Florida is ok in terms of an event but that course had weird flow and didn’t really allow close action. Was more of a follow the leader vs being in someones door or even long enough to really let a winner shine. Also being a privateer and getting an extra 15k together to make the huge drives back n forth for 3 events is very tough. East coast has 2 dope different style tracks. Dumpnthe red head stepshild that is FL.
The center states are dying for some events. At least one. Brings costs down a bit and expands the marketplace.
Gotta have the other 4 westcoasters as they are legit tracks and most privateers can hit them all. Also no 2 week breaks between tracks. The sport evolves from newcomers. Give them great chances to shine and become a name vs making it very hard to compete in most events.
Luckily there are some great sponsors out there to help in costs. This is one of the best bang for the buck sports for a sponsor i think. Alot of potential airtime with all the media outlets out there covering.
+1 for Falken runner
The track does its job on the big bank and the 1st inner bank.
as stated above, these layouts will further benefit high torque vehicles, those who have the softest and most tires. imo, it makes it more about the car instead of the driver. when D1 first set this layout, they knew what they were doing.
if anything, they should make the final turn into a hairpin, so it gives the lower horsepower cars a chance to catch up.
also, lets not forget the huge light pole in the center of the track, right where FD is planning on putting the transition.
@Chunky Munky
That’s what I was referring too….
“Florida is ok in terms of an event but that course had weird flow and didn’t really allow close action.”
I think that has more to do of FD outside clipping point/qualifying line style of tandem. D1 ran essentially the same setup back in 04 at California Speedway and there was plenty of door to door action.
In general if FD forced the the lead car to be more defensive and let the chaser be more offensive I think the battles would be alot more competitive through out the chassis types.
Hate to sound like a broken record but if FD wants to play this game I think its time for classes. Either that or set power limitations. I prefer the first option.
Maybe you have mentioned it before, what would be the class breakdown and how to run it in a format for the fans and flow of the show?
Curious as to what the sport will become. Hopefully it can include the other style cars as well as basically factory backed teams. Do we ALL have to eventually run v8s with 500+.
Miss the days of the stand in your seat feel as the follow car would dive in for a pass. I like the agressiveness needed and whole other style of those battles. It wasnt common but when it did happen people were going nuts.
Really, I think a true test of a (professional) drifter’s skill comes at courses like Fuji Speedway, where a premium on speed is mixed with exact precision on the hairpin. If anything, the best mix on Irwindale would be a Fuji-esque corner on the bank exit where drivers have to keep their speeds and attack the hairpin with maximum angle.
Something along those lines. I’m not sure exactly if Irwindale is the best place for Fuji emulation, but I say that Formula D should use a layout like that.
This is motorsport.
There will always be more horsepower in some cars than in others, just like at any other motorsport event or race in the world every time the green flag drops or the start lights go out.
In Formula D there are winners and losers, better teams and lesser teams, better drivers and lesser drivers, better cars and lesser cars. Just like in every other motorsport.
Power limitations? That can never be effective, its too easy to fake numbers during horsepower tests.
Classes? Maybe, but there’s not enough cars yet. Already in 2011 one event didn’t even qualify 32 cars.
Cars with more power will always have an advantage, doesn’t matter what shape the track is.
The only fix for those not getting results is a better car, a better driver, a better team, or a combination of all three.
Rulemakers in every series around the world always try to even the cars out or change stuff up to make it more even. The good drivers and the good teams with the good cars still always have a better chance of winning no matter what rules or track changes are made.
Welcome to motorsport. Its the same everywhere. Always has been, always will be.
Florida/PBIR is a good track… Just use a different section of the track.
im down for the new lay out. but also agree with danny in some regards. we do need to see a tex venue and there are far to many amazing road coarses in the us of a for FD to be rigging things or spending there own money to keep or refine certan tracks just to hold an event.
regardless the matter at hand is the track lay out and i agree with the new lay out. If cars cant cut it they need to either A. choose a diff platform or B. find a way to refine your vehicle to be competitiven example would be matt powers and the ls7
honestly im extremely anti american v8 but oppinions asside they are far more practice unless your luke longberger..
(sorry luke had to go there)
@Danny George….
I have explained it a few times. I would break teams up into 4 classes of 8 drivers (Short wheel base, Turbo, American muscle, unlimited). Have them battle it out in classes in bracket format then match the top class finishers in the finals to find a overall winner. That’s the best way I could put it without going into crazy detail.
@Huh
It sounds like FD is the only motorsport you watch. Every motorsport with a vast variety of chassis types use a class format. Rolex Series, Grand Am, World Challenge, ALMS, Super GT, Rally, etc. The series that don’t have classes do have specific engine/chassis guidelines that you have to follow and hypothetically everyone is running the same spec equipment. Nascar, V8 Supercar, DTM, and All Forms of open wheel.
@blaze
There’s not enough cars for different classes. You missed that one.
And if Formula D said everyone has to have a spec V8 all the Corolla and SR / KA 240 guys would cry foul.
My post was meant for comments like this above:
‘Do we ALL have to eventually run v8s with 500+.’
The answer is yes.
SR’s and KA-T’s are great pro am cars but mostly field fillers in Formula D unless enough cars show up to have different classes. No rule changes or different track layouts will change that.
@huh?
There is not enough cars for classes right now because everyone is kinda running the same thing. There’s only 8 combined rotary and 4 cylinder in the top 32, the rest are V6/V8. If FD enforced classes teams like ASD would have to put there cars against each other on the lower part of the bracket(the way I would do it anyway). They would be almost forced to change configurations.
“No rule changes or different track layouts will change that.”
I strongly disagree… the way the tracks are being designed and the way the sport is judged in the states will always give the stronger advantage to the car with the most mechanical grip and a strong broad torque range (V8) and this new layout will be a testament to that. If you force the drivers to run a more protective line in tandem it will neutralize the torque and grip at advantage by a considerable amount.
I really wish a couple FD teams would send their cars to D1 for a comp and see how they match up against the more traditional style of drift machine and talent. And its not like V8 technology is that foreign to the Japanese either, Formula NIPPON and Super GT (GT500) cars use V8s. Until then the FD style of driving and tuning is still unproven to be the best in my eyes. BTW who are all the “Corolla and SR / KA 240 guys ” there is 2 corollas on grid and only 2 SR guys in the top 32.
@blaze1
dude stop smokin that crack. do you really think were going to waste our time reading your way to long response !! clif notes someone.
leave fd alone it works. if you drive a car that cant keep up try lifting your skirt and grabbing your balls, and get/build a car that is more competitive. if thats a v8 s chassis so be it (ive come to terms with it so should everyone els and i absolutely hate v8′s )
Blaze,
All of the DRIVERS and car BUILDERS really disagree with your opinion, you should take note of this.
I absolutely cannot beleive you just compared Super GT to drifting. I bet you think they use 1uz supras for torque too.
Dmac’s, Rhys’s, Old HKS car, would still be fine.
You seen Ross Petty make any improvement switching to v8? Nope.
Aasbo’s car also works fine. You fail to realize you are looking at teams that go from a 500rwhp v8, OF COURSE they are going to do better.
No need for this classing crap. Perception is its “cheaper/easier” to make big power with the v8, and people don’t know how to properly make power with the little engines so they give up (which is fine).
I could honestly care less about what the drivers and teams think. They are out for them selves not for giving a better show. My whole standpoint is giving a better show for the fans but I do feel classes would create more options and marketing tools for teams.
I have no issues with a V8, I’m not a nutbag saying V8s are ruining the sport. But I am saying Tandem battles could use some work at the lower end of the bracket. The best battles I’ve seen so far have all been between cars with similar power plants. And I think matching up the similar chassis types early on will create better action.
ASD is running technology used in top rank motorsports in the US. I think asking why the Japanese drifters choose not to run Super GT technology is completely just. Dmac’s 86 per 2007 wouldn’t pass FD tech today (S13 rear suspension). I think Rhys Millen’s Kappa would perform fairly well but not in championship quality form. I bet a bountys worth of Wulongs that Aasbo will never get into the top 3 championship standings with that machine.
Ross needs some guidance, I will leave it at that.
@Hollywood, one minute your saying FD is hard to work with then now your saying it works? Whats your real angle? Like I said, I don’t have a problem with the motors but I do have the problem with the quality of battles that are delivered to the paying public.
I think you have “the fans” convinced with your opinion.
I was unaware that Formula 1, the premier motorsport in the WORLD, had classes… I should rewind all my dvr episodes to watch the classes run..
Oh wait, there aren’t any.. There are “restrictions” in the rulebook, but there aren’t any classes. All the cars race at once. And the lower end teams suck, and are around a second off the pace, or more at times/tracks. So what happens? The lower teams find ways to make their cars better to compete with the top tier teams. They are all on spec tyres, limited to engine displacement, but a lot of the car build is left to the designers and builders to make a chassis better than the next guy.
Formula D needs better cars, not classes to discriminate against the lower end teams. That’s what it would really do. And I mean that with respect to the lower end teams with less than top 10 chassis’ under them. They are doing what they can, with what they have. The top 10 have better teams, staff, engineers, and therefore better equipment to drive. Get the slower guys faster to keep up with the top teams, and tandem will be better. You won’t slow down the top teams, they will always be fast. That’s motorsports.